MagnarTBL
Registered User
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Ronneby, Sweden
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 Posted: Sun Nov 26 2006 23:45
Why does my music sound like a 1980-radio recording? |
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I was first going to write 1960, but I upgraded it a bit. 
Please, visit my homepage at www.harestad.info. There are some songs to the right which you can listen to. They are all quite old, but it doesn't matter - they all lack the punch and fullfillness or clarity that most other song I find here in "Music talk" does. Especially AM1's songs are always so clear in the overall music "picture".
I don't know how to explain this, but I feel my songs are very "centered" in the music picture and sounds very "demo"-recorded, which they of course are, but ... I want that to change. I want the 3d-depth of the sound to be in the master file, now I feel all the frequences are more or less cutdown and lacks the richness of the sounds I have outputted from my synths when I sample the intruments to use them inside Madtracker. I use Soundforge 8 as sampler application, and I've sampled mostly in stereo 44.1kHz, but even higher frequencerates. Tho, bespite all efforts - my old midi-work recorded with a DAT recorder straight from the big mixer with all the outputs from my hardware synths connected to it sounds more rich in the master afterwards. And this is pretty old hardware.
I really lack the software techniques here, and I am asking blindly to see if anyone have some good pointers to give me on what to do.
Seems like a need a VST that is called "professional studio mixer for dummies" or something, but I really try to pan the instrument, use different frequence instrument, EQ so that kick doesnt use same frequences as the bass sound(s), and I do some reverb and stuff on it all... but in the end, with all my efforts of volume, eq, filtering, panning... I still can't get the soundpicture I struggle for.
What am I doing wrong? Does someone have some good pointers?
/M |
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MagnarTBL
Registered User
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Ronneby, Sweden
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Posted: Sun Nov 26 2006 23:59
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One thing... Does most of you use mono records for external inputs to madtracker instruments, or stereo recordings? I mean, the stereo recording might already have some panning in it that screws up you pan inside madtracker?
I'm just guessing what might be wrong when I record for example hihats and cymbals from my HW drum machines if they are not centred before stereo recording, and if that can make a problem with the overall sound picture in the end...
Pointers... What best experience do you have on recording, EQ, paning, etc... I know there is loads of tips on the web and in studio books (yea, i got the freaking yellow book called Homestudio recording for dummies! And I think it is great, but it doesnt answer all my questions really...
I've tried a lot in Madtracker, which I couldn't do on HW stuff. All the nice VST plugins of vocoders, filters and autotune for the voices are great. I find the VST engine in Madtracker awesome easy to use and experience with. But I still hit the wall when I compare my output wav exported files with for example something done in a professional studio from any CD in my collection or listened on the radio.
And I also find the output from Madtracker is not the same when I play directly on my hardware synths. For example, basskicks lack totally the punch after being sampled from my synths/drummachines. Even stringpads are not the same if I for example sample a chord and use it inside Madtracker. It is not as rich as the output of the same chord on the synths.
Or ... at least, I think it is not. Maybe it's just me!
/M |
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QBical
Registered User
Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: Utrecht , The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 12:03
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Well one funny note is that the over produced sound your trying to make is inherrant to the 80's
but, what you can try to do is to use more spacial effects like reverb, delays and stuff like that to add a bit more life in your productions. Also the drum samples and bass synth stuff you use is realy dated, maybe you can try to create a track without sampling your hardware, and use software synths to create a more '06 sound. Especialy the drums...
Well, hope this helps, as a final note, try to let the song sound good before you even think of mixing the track. A mix can never make the song better in terms of sounds, it can only destroy it... |
PC: P4 HT 3ghz, 1gb ram, 500GB+ Storage, plextor DVD-rw, M-audo Audiophile 2496
Laptop: Apple Powerbook G4 15inch
Other Stuff: Phonic MU802 mixer, Alesis M1 Active Mk2 Monitors, Ipod 2nd gen. 20GB, maxtor firewire HD 80GB |
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SoulEye
Beta-Tester
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Location: Helsingborg, Sweden!
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Posted: Mon Nov 27 2006 12:53
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wouldn't it be nice if someone did a video of themselves producing a great track and commented on it while doing so?
rigging up a camera so that it watches the screen, or some screen capturing software that records a mike too..... would be swell...
if anyone knows of a software like this, i could eh... well i could make a documentary of me making a track but I cant guarantee any pro sound  |
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TOffe
Beta-Tester
Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: nomad
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Martin
Registered User
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Norway
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Franklin van Uden
Registered User
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Nov 28 2006 15:55
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| SoulEye wrote: | wouldn't it be nice if someone did a video of themselves producing a great track and commented on it while doing so?
rigging up a camera so that it watches the screen, or some screen capturing software that records a mike too..... would be swell...
if anyone knows of a software like this, i could eh... well i could make a documentary of me making a track but I cant guarantee any pro sound |
U could use CamStudio for that : http://sourceforge.net/projects/camstudio/
It's free, didn't tried it though .. |
Music ... is endless ... Work in progress ...
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Breaker
Registered User
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
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Posted: Tue Nov 28 2006 18:41
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I demand Andy doing it to =O!!
I mean he could make a cool track in 20 min =P |
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MagnarTBL
Registered User
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Ronneby, Sweden
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Posted: Wed Nov 29 2006 13:22
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Come on Andy, go for the challenge!  |
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bigandymac
Registered User
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Leeds UK
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Posted: Thu Nov 30 2006 21:13
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hello
ive been thinking about writing up a tutorial recently although a video one would be even cooler (ive got a webcam and mic so its possible).
my main tip is eq, its extremely important to get rich bass and nice bright high freqs. its important to have a decent eq. also a limiter and compression on the master while producing works well. |
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MagnarTBL
Registered User
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Ronneby, Sweden
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Posted: Thu Nov 30 2006 21:26
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| bigandymac wrote: | hello
ive been thinking about writing up a tutorial recently although a video one would be even cooler (ive got a webcam and mic so its possible).
my main tip is eq, its extremely important to get rich bass and nice bright high freqs. its important to have a decent eq. also a limiter and compression on the master while producing works well. |
Exactly what you write above I think is my weakness.
I do try to use frequence analyzers to analyze different tracks/sample instruments to avoid instruments/tracks to play in the same frequence area(s), and then apply what I think is the proper EQ on those instrument/track.
But I do not have a good control of that, especially while I am in the composing situation - As the analyzes I've to export the track/intruments to Wave files and analyze them inside Soundforge. Anyone know of a good VST plugin that would help with realtime frequence analyze of collisions between other instruments/tracks inside Madtracker would be extreemly helpful.
And in the mastering process, I really do not know which frequences to boost and/or limit to get that rich sound output... Which Andy has.
I still have a lot to learn in this area of mixing and mastering my songs, even tho I've learned a lot since the song examples on my webpage was put together almost a year ago.
But I've just teamed up with this incredible nice female singer, which I believe in. Meaning, I've got new inspiration to make new tracks and I want them to sound so much better than my old attempts...
/M |
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Breaker
Registered User
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
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Posted: Thu Nov 30 2006 22:17
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| bigandymac wrote: | hello
ive been thinking about writing up a tutorial recently although a video one would be even cooler (ive got a webcam and mic so its possible).
my main tip is eq, its extremely important to get rich bass and nice bright high freqs. its important to have a decent eq. also a limiter and compression on the master while producing works well. |
Andy, i WILL keep bumping this thread till you make a cool video were we can all learn something of
=p |
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Ravana
Registered User
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: Oulu, Finland
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Posted: Fri Dec 01 2006 05:05
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| MagnarTBL wrote: | Anyone know of a good VST plugin that would help with realtime frequence analyze of collisions between other instruments/tracks inside Madtracker would be extreemly helpful.
/M |
Well there is Voxengo Span, which is free. Then there is Nugen Audio Visualizer, which used to be free I think, but after the recent beta and the new version I guess it's not anymore. But I liked that a lot during it's beta, anyways... Not money to buy, though. |
http://www.mikseri.net/artists/thejollynekromanseri.51046.php
http://www.mikseri.net/artists/bewaretheconstruct.62202.php
MT source files available if requested (maybe) |
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TNK / ATK project
Registered User
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: Village-Neuf, France (Dont's search on the map, it's tiny...)
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Posted: Sun Dec 03 2006 02:49
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| MagnarTBL wrote: | | Anyone know of a good VST plugin that would help with realtime frequence analyze of collisions between other instruments/tracks inside Madtracker would be extreemly helpful. |
The tools Ravana told you about are great frequency analyzers, but they do not analyse several channels and therefore do not show you the frequency collisions you might encounter.
In fact, I do not know if such a tool exists, but if it does, it sure would sound very interesting.
So I'm joining Magnar here, asking if such kind of "multichannel frequency analyzers and frequency collision visualizers" exist and, if they don't, I'll ask WTF no coder's working on such stuff that could be handy much beyond the MT world (in other words : Coders who want to make some $$$, what are you waiting for ?)
About your sound, it's sounding more central because you use central frequencies ! But that's all but an error as your sounds will be compatible with almost every hardware, from crappy speakers to top end equipment, whereas people who compose using a too broad frequency range can get wonderfull results on top end equipments, and discover their work ruined on lower quality equipments that do not deliver the lower or higher frequencies accurately.
Question : Do YOU think you sound like 80's stuff or have you been told so ? Because people are sometimes way off topic. Like the guy who recently told me a mix/mastering he tought I did was pure shit... Unfortunately for him, it was not a mix/master I did he was listening to as it was Madonna's "Hung up", which was mixed and mastered in the world's biggest studios.
Besides this, I saw your studio pictures and well... Am I seeing a neumann mic here ?!? |
Last edited by TNK / ATK project on Sun Dec 03 2006 03:04; edited 1 time in total |
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TNK / ATK project
Registered User
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: Village-Neuf, France (Dont's search on the map, it's tiny...)
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Posted: Sun Dec 03 2006 02:55
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| QBical wrote: | | Also the drum samples and bass synth stuff you use is realy dated, maybe you can try to create a track without sampling your hardware, and use software synths to create a more '06 sound. Especialy the drums... |
That does not explain why the sounds, whatever they are, once imported in MT, sound less clear, less punchy than when he plays them on his synths / drum machines ... The same happens here when I import the pads from my Korg X3 (another old synth, I know) into madtracker (That's BTW the main reason I nowadays rather use Daichi Synth 1 to create my pads... this one has a great output!) |
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